Are you the Isaac Newton of the 21st
century?
Who knows? I think I've discovered some big and important things.
But I'm more interested in what I've discovered than where it puts
me in the world. Sometimes I think I might be happier just to figure
things out and keep them to myself. I've put a lot of effort into
getting ready to share them. And if people actually start to
understand what I've figured out, then I think I'll be forced to be
a very famous scientist. I have mixed feelings about that. But I
think it's important to the ideas that I don't try to avoid it too
much.
What's the story behind this new kind of
science? How did it all begin?
Around 1980, I had become interested in several really different
questions--galaxy formation and how brains work. They all seemed to
be getting stuck in the same kind of way. I began to realise that
the real problem was with the basic infrastructure of science. For
about 300 years, most of science has been dominated by the idea of
using mathematical equations to model nature. That worked really
well for Newton and friends, figuring out orbits of planets and
things, but it's never really worked with more complicated phenomena
in physics, such as fluid turbulence. And in biology it's been
pretty hopeless.
If equations aren't the right infrastructure
for modelling the world, what is?
Simple programs. If you're going to be able to make scientific
theories at all, systems in nature had better follow definite rules.
But why should those rules be based on the constructs of human
mathematics? In the past, there wasn't any framework for thinking
about more general kinds of rules. But now you can think of them as
being like computer programs. About 20 years ago, I decided to try
to work out what kind of science you could build from these more
general kinds of rules. The first big question was what do these
rules typically do? What do simple programs typically do?
Did you carry out experiments to find out?
Yes. I started with very simple programs called cellular
automata. The version that I used began with a row of cells, each
either black or white. Then you make a new row underneath. You use a
definite rule to work out the colour of each cell, by looking at the
colours of its neighbours on the row above. And then you repeat this
over and over again. It's a simple set-up. There are just 256 of
these kinds of programs. The question is what happens when you run
them, say just starting with a single black cell. You would guess it
should always be something simple. The remarkable thing I
discovered--almost 20 years ago--is that this intuition is
completely wrong. You see, of the 256 possible cellular automata,
several make incredibly complicated patterns that look almost
completely random and that you'd never imagine came just from
repeatedly applying a simple rule to a single black square.
So your experiments convinced you that nature
uses simple programs to generate the complexity we see around
us...
Yes, I think it's the main secret of nature. It's what lets
nature come up with things that look so much more complex than
anything we've been able to invent does. Some people say complexity
in biology can't just be coming from natural selection. They're
right, but the point is that nature uses tools we didn't expect.
That's what I've discovered.
How did you follow up on this?
I worked out lots of details and published lots of papers. And I
got lots of other people interested. The whole topic of complexity
got very popular. I even began a journal and a research centre. But
people understood only part of what I'd done. The rest required a
big conceptual leap. And if you want to pursue those things, history
says you pretty much have to go it alone.
And a new science needs a new tool--was that
why you invented Mathematica?
Partly. I needed to be able to build programs then find out what
they do as efficiently as possible. It required big new ideas about
setting up software systems to do that. It turned out that the very
fact that I could figure out how to build all the complexity of
Mathematica from quite simple "primitives" was an important
inspiration. It made me realise that I might work out what
primitives nature uses for its rules. So Mathematica was both a tool
and an inspiration.
What exactly does Mathematica do?
It's a complete environment for technical computing. It lets
people do a huge range of calculations, and creates graphics and
documents, interacts with the Web, and so on. It's all based on a
language that lets you build complex programs far more easily than
before. A few million people use it.
Did that make you a multimillionaire?
Yes, I've made a lot of money, but I've always wanted to put my
energies into the things that I find most interesting. What
motivates me most is discovering new things and building new
ideas.
Tell me about your 10 years of silence...
It began in 1991 after I'd built up a terrific team at my
company. I began to split my time between management and basic
science. I wanted to finish building the new kind of science I'd
begun in the early 1980s. I had no idea it would take so long. I
kept on discovering more and more things. Every time I turned over a
rock there was a huge new universe underneath. It's been exciting,
but there's been a huge amount to do and it's taken immense focus to
get it all done. I always used to like lecturing and travelling, but
to get this project done, I've had to shut those kinds of things
down.
And talking to journalists?
Right. I'm going to have to get used to that again now.
So, what have you discovered?
Enough to fill hundreds--maybe thousands--of scientific papers.
I've amassed a huge amount of evidence for my idea that simple
programs--like the cellular automata--are the key to lots of
important phenomena in nature. In physics, for instance, I can
finally explain why the second law of thermodynamics works--that is,
why many physical systems tend to become irreversibly more random as
time progresses. In biology, I now know how a lot of the complexity
arises. I've discovered that many things we might have thought were
special about life and intelligence, for example, can also emerge in
all kinds of physical systems. Consequently, I don't believe
"anthropic" arguments that say that for us to be here it's necessary
for there to be stars, galaxies and so on. There can be things just
as complex as us without any of that.
Why haven't you published any of this?
Because it's all part of a big picture that can be communicated
properly only by showing everything together. I guess if someone
else had been paying for my work, I might have had to give progress
reports. Fortunately, I've been able to concentrate on putting
everything together in a nice coherent way, as a book called A New
Kind of Science. It's been a huge project. I've devoted about 100
million keystrokes to it. I've taken a lot of trouble to polish my
ideas so they're as clean as possible. Usually, new directions in
science begin far more gradually, with lots of people involved. But
the things I'm doing now are different enough that I've had to build
up a whole new intellectual structure by myself.
Who's the book aimed at?
Everyone. It's completely new so there aren't any specialists. It
may turn out that people who have good intellectual discipline but
perhaps don't know so much about science will have an easier
time.
Have you discovered the simple program that is
generating the Universe?
Not yet. But I have found increasing evidence that it exists. It
could be as simple as a few lines of Mathematica code. I think
before too many years it'll be possible to find it.
So is Stephen Hawking right about scientists
being close to discovering a "theory of everything"?
Well, the things I've been thinking about are very, very
different from the usual quantum field theory and string theory
approach. There's some very basic intuition that's different when
you think about simple programs instead of equations and so on. One
big issue is that getting a fundamental theory of physics doesn't
mean physics is finished. That'd be like saying that computing is
finished once you have a computer. Suppose that the program for the
Universe is four lines long. There's no room in those four lines to
put in all the familiar stuff we know about space-time having four
dimensions, the muon being 206 times the mass of the electron, and
so on. Almost nothing from the everyday world will be obvious in the
program. These things will have to emerge when the program runs.
Figuring out how that works, and exactly what can emerge, can be
arbitrarily difficult.
Could it be that the Universe-generating
program will only produce what we see around us after it's run for
13 billion years?
Yes, I think that will be partly true. But even though the
evolution of the Universe as a whole may be what I call
computationally irreducible, there will still be patches that are
reducible--where we can figure what the Universe does faster than it
does it. And actually almost all of what traditional equation-based
science has been doing is looking just at those computationally
reducible parts.
So there's no mystery in Einstein's famous
observation that the most incomprehensible thing about the Universe
is that it's comprehensible?
Well, I think that's really much more a statement about the
practice of science than about our Universe. One of the clear
lessons from history is that fields of science tend to get defined
according to whatever their methods allow them to study
successfully. What I've discovered is that there's lots of other
stuff out there that you can see if you think in terms of
programs.
So if the Babylonians had invented computer
programs before geometry, might science have been more
effective?
Well, quite a bit of what I've discovered could have been found
by the Babylonians. If you know what to look for, you could just
find it by arranging pebbles with a simple rule. Young kids today
could certainly do it. If my kind of science had been around for
ages, perhaps only now would a Newton have invented calculus.
A New Kind of Science is due to be published by Wolfram Media in
January 2002 |